Hello Ritzy,
I managed to set both extruders to almost the exact the same level in one attempt. I was probably lucky!!
My procedure was:
1) I leveled the bed with one extruder, and my printer was able to print fine with one extruder.
2) First BIG adjustment was to level both extruders from the extruder tube screw. For this, I had to remove the dual extruder unit from the printer. I did it like the video shows with a caliper. I mean I set the extruder tube distance from the head to be the same. As I mentioned before, this was a big/raw adjustment.
3) 1st Fine adjustment-> I mounted the extruders head in the printer and I moved the head till the first extruder touched the bed, then the second one (right) was slightly up. So I loosen the two bolts in the back of the head trying to move the entire head till both extruders were touching the bed and I retighten the head again. After adjust the head, the right extruder was a bit up, really small difference, less than a millimeter.
4) I loosen a bit the nut of the extruder screwed tube, and I turned it half turn till it also touch the bed, then both extruders where leveled. Finally I adjusted the nut. The only thing is that the extruder heater is not aligned like in your last picture... but this is not a big issue.
The final result is that the right extruder is slightly upper than the right one, probably 0.1mm but I can print with both without any problem and there is no interference with the extruders and the printed piece.
How do you level the dual extruders & bed, i3 PRO C
Re: How do you level the dual extruders & bed, i3 PRO C
Hi Pekote,
Thanks for the reply. Glad you found a quick way around the issue as my method takes a bit of time to complete but fixes the problem permanently.
Also find that half the fun of the 3d printer is making it better with 3d printed parts. So least my way I can take it all apart and put back no problems.
I tried the same method as you, but found that to get them level I had to have the heater a half screw around the other way.
This meant that the Y axis was different for each of the extruders. As you want both of them to be straight on the Y axis. so one would be closer to the front of the unit then the other.
I guess you could run a Y offset but this would then add another complication.
I have spoken to a few other people on that same unit having my issue. Maybe it just depends how the threads work out wether it's only a slight variation or a major one.
Maybe mine was just made near closing time on a friday.
PS: Best thing i have bought is Buildtak, i recommend you get some. I now know that i was printing the first layer to low to get it to stick to the glass. As you can move the extruders high with buildtak and it still stick no problems. To low and its crazy hard to remove it from the buildtak. Once you get the first layer right the print quality when you print at .1mm is insane. You can almost not see the layers on the print.
Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Glad you found a quick way around the issue as my method takes a bit of time to complete but fixes the problem permanently.
Also find that half the fun of the 3d printer is making it better with 3d printed parts. So least my way I can take it all apart and put back no problems.
I tried the same method as you, but found that to get them level I had to have the heater a half screw around the other way.
This meant that the Y axis was different for each of the extruders. As you want both of them to be straight on the Y axis. so one would be closer to the front of the unit then the other.
I guess you could run a Y offset but this would then add another complication.
I have spoken to a few other people on that same unit having my issue. Maybe it just depends how the threads work out wether it's only a slight variation or a major one.
Maybe mine was just made near closing time on a friday.
PS: Best thing i have bought is Buildtak, i recommend you get some. I now know that i was printing the first layer to low to get it to stick to the glass. As you can move the extruders high with buildtak and it still stick no problems. To low and its crazy hard to remove it from the buildtak. Once you get the first layer right the print quality when you print at .1mm is insane. You can almost not see the layers on the print.
Thanks
Re: How do you level the dual extruders & bed, i3 PRO C
Thanks for the suggestionritzy wrote:Hi Pekote,
PS: Best thing i have bought is Buildtak, i recommend you get some. I now know that i was printing the first layer to low to get it to stick to the glass. As you can move the extruders high with buildtak and it still stick no problems. To low and its crazy hard to remove it from the buildtak. Once you get the first layer right the print quality when you print at .1mm is insane. You can almost not see the layers on the print.
Thanks
For bed stick, I use ROBY Hair Spay. It is amazing, pretty cheap and the smell is wonderful. To remove the piece from bed, it is necessary to wait till bed is cold and the piece is released without need to touch anything. It takes time but it is the best (I only use ABS, never tried with PLA).
For extruder calibration I use a caliper (the ones that are a set of metal sheets from 0.1mm to 1mm) I always setup the extruder altitude from 0.2 to 0.3mm. No problems at all.
Re: How do you level the dual extruders & bed, i3 PRO C
I have now read, I think, pretty much every thread in existence about bed leveling for the dual extruders, and I see a very critical step that is never mentioned.
You can set your tips as much as you want, but if you don't have BOTH SIDES of your z axis at identical heights, you end up with compounding errors.
The FIRST step should always be to ensure that BOTH Z drives are at exactly the same height. An eighth of a turn is a huge differential from absolute left height
to absolute right height.
Using your vernier, or some type of solid object, measure from the transverse (X) rods to the top of your base mounting plate, NOT the print bed, but the plate it is mounted to.
Simply turn the threaded rod on 1 side until you have this reference height exact.
THEN, set your bed height level in relation to the transverse (X) rod, the same one you used for the first measurement. This will get you VERY close.
Now you can install your extruder assemblies, that you already preset. If all your other measurements were done correctly, the only thing you should have
to set now is the Z stop. (and maybe a bit of minor tweaking to the mount because of clearance for the mounting screws)
Set the stop screw in a good bit, and just keep hitting Z home, backing out the stop screw until you get to where your paper test is close.
At this point, keep in mind, Repetier uses a Z height of 0 mm by default, so we must now either set the z stop to where the nozzle touches the bed, or put an -.3 offset in Repetier.
Failure to do this will result in an incorrect height for the first layer, ie; thickness of paper ~0.27mm+0.3mm for first layer = roughly 6mm instead of 3mm.(depending on nozzle dia.)
For me, I found the best way was to use my caliper to measure my paper, then manually raise my Z by that thickness in Repetier, then reset my Z stop to where my paper had the
slightest bit of drag, remembering to re-raise Z thickness of paper after every home trial. I used this method on the same tip until completed, then simply double checked second
tip at 4 corners. At most I needed to turn 1 adjusting screw an eighth of a turn. Hope this helps. If it doesn't, your bearing rods are likely bent.
You can set your tips as much as you want, but if you don't have BOTH SIDES of your z axis at identical heights, you end up with compounding errors.
The FIRST step should always be to ensure that BOTH Z drives are at exactly the same height. An eighth of a turn is a huge differential from absolute left height
to absolute right height.
Using your vernier, or some type of solid object, measure from the transverse (X) rods to the top of your base mounting plate, NOT the print bed, but the plate it is mounted to.
Simply turn the threaded rod on 1 side until you have this reference height exact.
THEN, set your bed height level in relation to the transverse (X) rod, the same one you used for the first measurement. This will get you VERY close.
Now you can install your extruder assemblies, that you already preset. If all your other measurements were done correctly, the only thing you should have
to set now is the Z stop. (and maybe a bit of minor tweaking to the mount because of clearance for the mounting screws)
Set the stop screw in a good bit, and just keep hitting Z home, backing out the stop screw until you get to where your paper test is close.
At this point, keep in mind, Repetier uses a Z height of 0 mm by default, so we must now either set the z stop to where the nozzle touches the bed, or put an -.3 offset in Repetier.
Failure to do this will result in an incorrect height for the first layer, ie; thickness of paper ~0.27mm+0.3mm for first layer = roughly 6mm instead of 3mm.(depending on nozzle dia.)
For me, I found the best way was to use my caliper to measure my paper, then manually raise my Z by that thickness in Repetier, then reset my Z stop to where my paper had the
slightest bit of drag, remembering to re-raise Z thickness of paper after every home trial. I used this method on the same tip until completed, then simply double checked second
tip at 4 corners. At most I needed to turn 1 adjusting screw an eighth of a turn. Hope this helps. If it doesn't, your bearing rods are likely bent.
Re: How do you level the dual extruders & bed, i3 PRO C
My steps are similar to yours snowman but yours seems to over think the problem in my opinion.
Below assumes you have auto bed leveling (if you dont have it you shuld get it) and printed yourself a dual head extruder gauge tool (like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:299331).
Just make sure you check the dual head extruder gauge tool is true and correct.
I find the print gauge worked better then a set of calipers as you could never get them correct as the calipers need to go on angle to the head.
To get both heads the same is bolt on the dual head extruder gauge and get the fixed head to the correct height first. I had to use a few washers and spacers to get this to match the dual head extruder gauge tool.
Once the first one was correct my second head was easy to get right as I had modified as per earlier post using a grub screw. just have to make sure they are lower than the lowest part on the extruder mount. Only make this mistake once. the second extruder head was so easy to get right I wish i had modded both, maybe one day when I take it apart. I also checked the heads with calipers just to be sure.
Once both head are exactly the same then you only need the high to be changed from extruder to bed as we know the heads are the same height or 0 and 32mm apart on the Y axis. the printer assumes the middle is centre so it's -16mm and 16mm for each one from the centre.
Once it's all together i get both Z motors and bars at the same high using calipers. I also level the print bed even though I have auto bed leveling. I check all belt etc.
Next is to get the auto bed leveling correct. I just get the height of the head vs the print bed to what i want then tighten the induction sensor. I have the MK3 heat bed so is made of aluminium.
If you didn't have auto bed leveling you would get the height of extruder to the print bed by roughly by 2 pieces of paper. This will be close but you still need to mess with the Z offset in start G code.
I then check the auto bed leveling is stopping and the home works on all axis.
I then print a few test prints (using Klöts- Quick shoe ties) of the first layer only. I then change the Z offset in the start G code and go up by 0.5 at a time. You'll easily see what one is correct, as to far and you get gaps and to close and the print looks squashed. I right the offset on each one when i pull it off of the bed. Once I'm happy with the 0.5 offset steps I start changing the Z offset by 0.1 each way till i'm happy. Youll know if it needs to go up or down based on the 0.5 results.
This is very important to get right. As the better you can get the first layer the better the rest of the print will be. Even if you have a working printer you'll find this is where you need to play to better the print quality.
Using this method i get prints as good as you can get with a 0.1mm 3d printer. On ABS this is to the point where you can feel the lines but hardly see them.
Below assumes you have auto bed leveling (if you dont have it you shuld get it) and printed yourself a dual head extruder gauge tool (like this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:299331).
Just make sure you check the dual head extruder gauge tool is true and correct.
I find the print gauge worked better then a set of calipers as you could never get them correct as the calipers need to go on angle to the head.
To get both heads the same is bolt on the dual head extruder gauge and get the fixed head to the correct height first. I had to use a few washers and spacers to get this to match the dual head extruder gauge tool.
Once the first one was correct my second head was easy to get right as I had modified as per earlier post using a grub screw. just have to make sure they are lower than the lowest part on the extruder mount. Only make this mistake once. the second extruder head was so easy to get right I wish i had modded both, maybe one day when I take it apart. I also checked the heads with calipers just to be sure.
Once both head are exactly the same then you only need the high to be changed from extruder to bed as we know the heads are the same height or 0 and 32mm apart on the Y axis. the printer assumes the middle is centre so it's -16mm and 16mm for each one from the centre.
Once it's all together i get both Z motors and bars at the same high using calipers. I also level the print bed even though I have auto bed leveling. I check all belt etc.
Next is to get the auto bed leveling correct. I just get the height of the head vs the print bed to what i want then tighten the induction sensor. I have the MK3 heat bed so is made of aluminium.
If you didn't have auto bed leveling you would get the height of extruder to the print bed by roughly by 2 pieces of paper. This will be close but you still need to mess with the Z offset in start G code.
I then check the auto bed leveling is stopping and the home works on all axis.
I then print a few test prints (using Klöts- Quick shoe ties) of the first layer only. I then change the Z offset in the start G code and go up by 0.5 at a time. You'll easily see what one is correct, as to far and you get gaps and to close and the print looks squashed. I right the offset on each one when i pull it off of the bed. Once I'm happy with the 0.5 offset steps I start changing the Z offset by 0.1 each way till i'm happy. Youll know if it needs to go up or down based on the 0.5 results.
This is very important to get right. As the better you can get the first layer the better the rest of the print will be. Even if you have a working printer you'll find this is where you need to play to better the print quality.
Using this method i get prints as good as you can get with a 0.1mm 3d printer. On ABS this is to the point where you can feel the lines but hardly see them.